----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Schroeder

To: Robert Powell ; Alan Couchman ; Arthur Clarke ; Chris Stevens ; Chuck Burnett ; Daniel New ; Dave Lescalleet ; David Lewis ; David Martinez ; Don BeBee ; Jeremiah Patoka ; John Bryant ; John Otis ; Mitch Friedman ; Nathan Shaver ; Pat Hastings ; Rick Mata ; Ron Avery ; Ryan Bebee ; Steve Phillips ; Terry Burnett

Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:06 AM

Subject: RE: The Truth Of The Gospel

Robert,
 
Here is where I must disagree with Pastor Stam. As much as I respect Pastor Stam's ministry, this tract muddies the water by implying that Peter should have been preaching Paul's gospel.  
 
Peter's first and second letters do not support this position. In 1 Peter 1, he makes it very clear that those Jews he was writing to, "the strangers scattered" (Ref. Acts 8) were not saved by grace.  This is substantiated by the language of verses 5,9 and 13: 

 

You make a large error immediately upon interpreting who Peter was writing to:

"1 Peter 1:1-2  Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2  Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

 

It is the strangers of the common wealth of Israel that Peter was talking to in these areas, not to Jews. He wrote to the same church that Paul had started in Galatia to back his message up. Paul also calls Gentiles strangers and aliens to the covenants and promises to Israel in Eph 2:12:

 

"Ephesians 2:12  That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:"

I would have to deny reason and logic to conclude that Peter was speaking of some unique gospel only applicable to Jews upon reading the whole first chapter of 1st Peter. The first chapter of Peter is an exact duplicate of that which Paul was preaching.

 

Your argument is destroyed on the reading of 1 Peter 1 upon finding any one of the following from same:

1. If we find that Peter was speaking to the Gentiles your argument is destroyed because you say he was speaking only to Jews.
2. If Peter was speaking to the Jews your argument is destroyed because he told the Jews the same gospel message that Paul was telling the Gentiles and the Jews as well.

 

1 Pet 1:5,9,13
"....who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time....Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.....Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ"

 

Addition: Let me offer my interpretation which results from my experience of rebirth from the death resurrection and ascension of Christ before I knew any of these doctrines which you throw about or any other particular doctrine. Let's review the whole context of what is referenced above in a piece meal fashion:

 

1 Peter 1:3-13  ¶Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4  To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5  Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6  ¶Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8  Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9  Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10  ¶Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11  Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12  Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13  ¶Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

 

Peter says in verse 3 above that God the father of Christ hath begotten us, or gave birth to us, unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. And that this hope is in an incorruptible inheritance, undefiled and eternal reserved in heaven for you who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Peter was writing this in the end time as John also wrote that he also lived in the end time at 1 John 2:18:  "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." Peter also referred to the time in which he lived as the last days at Acts 2:17:  "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" This is not a reference to the return of Christ but to the age in which Peter lived and in which I live. Paul also said he lived in the last days at Hebrews 1:2:  "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

 

Grace does not come to us at the second coming of Christ or all of Hebrews would be false and the gospel of John would be false for John says that the law came by Moses but truth and grace came by Jesus or words to that effect: John 1:17  "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." So grace is already here and available to us in the death resurrection and ascension of Christ which is the open door that no man can shut where in all enter the Kingdom of Heaven and upon Earth right now if they trust and follow him where he goes and where he is now.

 

Now what is the finish of our faith but the salvation of our souls said above? This does not occur at the second coming of Christ but this must occur prior to that time. If we are unsaved upon the return of Christ we have no portion with him. We know him not and he does not know us. He knows those whom he has regenerated. Faith plays a part indeed in taking us there like a vehicle but faith is not the end of our faith. Salvation by grace is the end of our faith prior to the return of Christ.

 

Now what is meant by "hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;" You have said that this is the return of Christ in which you think grace is first applied. That is false. The revelation of Christ does not in any way refer to the return of Christ. The revelation of Christ is simply the knowledge of Christ and a revealing to your mind of what he has done with his body to the cosmos and everything in it including you. Once you perceive this and trust it and surrender to that operation you will be born again just as the temple was destroyed and rebuilt in three days and ascended into heaven 40 days later. Therefore those who are not yet saved but who are studying the scriptures and honestly following Jesus should hope to the end (end of their quest in faith) for the grace (passage through the door created by the body of Christ) brought unto you at the revelation (knowledge and perception) of Jesus Christ (or the works that he performed). This is indeed a reciting of the gospel of grace that you deny in the next paragraph.

 

This is not the gospel of the grace of God. First, the power that they are kept by, given to them (Ref. John 1:12) upon confessing (1 John 1:9), repenting, and being baptized (Acts 2:38), is the "gift of the Holy Ghost", "the anointing "(1 John 2:27) that enables them to be faithful unto the end (ref. Matt. 24:13).  

 

Addition of the actual references: John 1:12  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name; 1 John 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness; (Confession of sins cannot be salvation as this was done in the Old Testament. This refers to our future forgiveness through the cleansing in the blood of Christ if we are honest. Many in those days thought they were clean and did all the ceremonies and thought that made them clean and therefore without need of the death resurrection and ascension of Christ. Now you are saying the same thing by claiming a mere experience of the Holy Spirit as sufficient for salvation). Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost: (a receipt of the Holy Ghost is not salvation in itself or acquisition of eternal life); 1 John 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him (also a teacher is not salvation or eternal life, it will lead you there but it is not the end of your faith); Matthew 24:13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (This is a promise to keep seeking and endure until you get it or obtain that which you seek, i.e., salvation and eternal life prior to the grave. In other words, he that shall seek until the end of his faith will find the salvation he looks for).

 

The Grace of God is not the sinners confession or his repentance or his baptism by water or his receipt of the Holy Ghost which "enables them to be faithful until they die. People had been doing that in the Old Testament. And all of that was insufficient according to Paul at Hebrews 11:39-12:2 "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Hebrews 12:1  Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Again we see that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith by bringing us to the door and upon our transport through the door our faith is finished in that salvation experience.

 

All these acts that a sinner does leads to their revelation of what Christ has really done and how that impacts your life and existence which changes it from one kind of creature to another kind of creature or from a mortal to an immortal. Mike, you have dismissed the idea that we should be in the Kingdom of God and you are saying that all that is necessary is that we get the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost and that is sufficient. I say it is not and never has been. It is good. It will certainly lead to salvation and to rebirth but if you are deceived and say that the Holy Ghost is the end and purpose of Christ than you are cut off from the Kingdom of God and Heaven. All scriptures you use to support your thesis really say that if you receive the Holy Spirit or confess your sins or confess your belief, such will all lead to salvation but do not actually become the salvation in themselves alone as you can see in the bolded portions above.

End of Addition

 

I now see what you are trying to do and how you are trying to cover yourself with a cloak. You are saying that the mere receiving of the "Holy Ghost" is the purpose of the "grace of God" which you say, elsewhere in other emails, is the "gospel of Christ," which you say you are a part of. This is error. And this error permits you to be unsaved, and unborn again because you have learned that you need only the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit for salvation and this is all that is experienced by the Christian and is the end of Christianity for Christians until we obtain grace by salvation in death. This is as false as believing in Athena. 
 
Briefly, salvation comes to them at the end of a faithfully lived life. Salvation comes to us (the body of Christ) at the beginning of our life of faith (Rom. 5:11) 

 

That statement is like saying the principles of electricity are of one type for Gentiles and they are of another type for Jews. This is non-sense. Jews better apply the same principles of electricity or they will be electrocuted and the same goes for Gentiles. It is impossible for salvation to come to anyone in the beginning of their "life of faith" because faith is finished upon salvation by the revelation of knowledge of what Christ has done. Therefore, the "life of faith" which leads to salvation by our surrender to the operation of God in Christ by our death, resurrection and ascension in the body of Christ which is also our entrance into the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven end upon that experience. This is true for any body including the Jew and Gentile.
 
When Peter says, in Acts 15:11, "we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they," is he saying that they (the kingdom saints) are saved by grace through faith, as in Eph. 2:8? Hardly. They are saved by the blood atonement, just as the body of Christ is, but the blood is not applied at the same time. According to what Peter writes in those verses quoted above, for them it is clearly at the end, at the appearing of Jesus Christ. Romans 5:11 just as clearly says it is at the beginning for those in the body of Christ. They get the "power to become the sons of God," we get the seal of the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:14), which bears witness with our spirit that we "are the children of God." (Romans 8:16). We are identified by our testimony (i.e., verbal confession-Romans 10:10; 1 Tim. 6:13) of salvation; they by the fruit they bear (Matt. 7:20)

 

How can anyone arrive at your conclusions from reading the following?

 

"Acts 15:4-20  And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5  But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6  And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7  And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8  And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9  And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10  Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11  But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12  Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13  And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14  Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15  And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16  After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17  That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18  Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19  Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20  But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."

Peter in verse 7 above states that "God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe." This shoots all your doctrine down as Peter himself says God told him to preach to the Gentiles and that they should believe the same thing regarding the gospel of Christ. Where is your double gospel now?

 

Peter says in verses 8-11 just the opposite of what you claim and those whom you follow that God bore witness giving the Gentiles the Holy Ghost the same as the Jew and put no difference between the Jew and the Gentile purifying their hearts by faith. He goes on to say, why tempt God to put a yoke upon the Gentiles that we or our fathers could not keep. Then Peter said the direct opposite of what you conclude that the Jewish Christian church in Jerusalem believes they (the Jew) will be saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ even as the Gentile. Where is your double gospel here? Why should we go on and on with your slaughter of the word which you call "rightly dividing?"

 

My friend Mike, I know why you are doing this and why you are so persistent in your misreadings of the gospel. You have not been born again or saved and you know it and you are trying to avoid the need for it by constructing another gospel that does not require a rebirth. The receipt of the Holy Ghost is not rebirth. The receipt of the Holy Spirit is not salvation. The creation of the "gospel of Christ" as opposed to some kind of "gospel of the Kingdom" is not obtaining eternal life which you should really seek instead of spending hours and hours blocking up the entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven by creating false hyper distinctions which you and your cohorts call "rightly dividing the word." You and your friends have not rightly divided or deducted anything from scripture except an excuse for your failure to enter the Kingdom of Heaven and/or God by the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ. You have not trusted in the works of Christ nor his word and you do not know the scriptures nor the power of them. And unless you be born again you will never rightly divide the word of God or Christ.

 

Addition:

You say above that "They get the "power to become the sons of God," we get the seal of the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:14), which bears witness with our spirit that we "are the children of God." (Romans 8:16). We are identified by our testimony (i.e., verbal confession-Romans 10:10; 1 Tim. 6:13) of salvation; they by the fruit they bear (Matt. 7:20) What! How is being the son of God being any different from being the children of God? Is a child not a son or a son not a child? Those that are born again are the sons, daughters and children of God. Therefore they get what we get. How are we not identified by our fruit and merely by our testimony? You mean the gentile can sin and be fruitless and worthless and yet our mere testimony will identify us while the Jew can have no testimony of the gospel but have good fruits? What a slaughter you make of scripture in the name of "rightly dividing!" This doctrine is not of two gospels or two anything but the work of a one who conceals the door to heaven so he need not go in.

End of Addition.

Also, chapter 2, verse 9, which referes to them as a "royal priesthood, an holy nation," identifies them as the fulfillment of Exodus 19:6, and matches the "kings and priests" designation in Rev. 1:6; 5:10. Where does Paul ever refer to the body of Christ as a royal priesthood, or a nation?

 

More dribble my good friend. I am in the royal priesthood and I am part of a holy nation and I am a King and a Priest made so by the death, resurrection and ascension of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And I see no point in trying to straighten any more of your deceptions out because you will simply make more. Because you are afraid to face the fact that you know in your heart. You must continue to create an excuse so that you can avoid the cross. But you cannot and will not. You will never be complete or fulfilled until you die on the cross with Christ and be resurrected with him and ascend with him. And the same goes for Terry Burnett.

Moreover, in his second letter to these folks, Peter tells them the things Paul writes of are "hard to by understood."(2 Pet. 3:16)  If Paul's gospel is being preached by Peter, then why doesn't he, in his letters, simply explain it to them, and admonish them that this is now the gospel which they are to be following?

 

Mike, Peter did that very thing but you cannot discern it. So the things Paul writes of are "hard to be understood" as you certainly missed it as well. Just because something is hard to understand does not mean there was a difference between what Peter was talking about and what Paul was talking about.

 

Why is all this important anyway Mike? Do you really care how many gospels there are or who is supposed to have what? No! Your whole motive here is to avoid the salvation that is required via the cross. And you know this. You have already admitted in another email that you quit trying to be what you never will be. And I have found out what that is you have been striving for and never obtained. That is the born again experience which you have not ever said you have experienced.

Finally, how is it that Peter, James and John can be members of the body of Christ, yet still inherit the kingdom of heaven, and sit on "twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matt. 19:28) in that earthly kingdom?

 

Again Mike you will never put this all together properly until after you have been born again. You are trying to determine correct theology as one who has not experienced what Christ has provided for you and your solution is to theologically excuse yourself rather than continue to try and obtain the crown of life. Peter, James, John and Paul and I are members of the body of Christ and we have inherited the Kingdom of Heaven which is the cosmos and the first twelve apostles sit presently on twelve thrones over the house of Israel where as Paul is the great apostle to the Gentiles and I am a King and a Priest made so by the same operation of God in Christ.
 
Conclusion
 
I think the point of all this should be that, whatever happened during the Acts transition, at the end of it one gospel emerged, and that is Paul's gospel, "the gospel of the grace of God," which is now to be preached to "all nations for the obedience of faith." (Romans 16:26)  It is absolutely not to be mixed with the other gospel, the "gospel of the kingdom," preached by Peter, James and John to the "circumcision," which paralleled it during the Acts. By doing this, as most of Christian theology does, you adulterate the grace gospel with works, which is clearly forbidden
 
Addition:

There was never a mix of a "gospel of the Kingdom" and a "gospel of the grace of God" to begin with. There was merely a dispute between some Jews that Gentiles had to be circumcised and keep some laws and ceremonies that the Jews were in the habit of enjoying. There was never two distinct gospels as described by Mike or any of his cohorts.

End of Addition
 
Rom 11:6
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.  

Mike, What has this doctrine got to do with all that above? Not a single thing. The Jews need to be saved by the operation of God in Christ or by the works of Christ which are his death, resurrection and ascension and so do the Gentiles. Works have no place with the Jews or the Gentiles.

Eph 2:8,9
For by grace are ye saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, Not of works, lest any man should boast.   (KJV)

Again this has nothing to do with your argument! We are all saved by the same operation. We are saved by being in the body of Christ in his death, resurrection and ascension and we are lead to trust this operation by our faith that Christ did indeed do all of that and that we are in him when he did it. But our faith is finished when we experience the operation and go through the door he made into heaven by that operation and we then have the keys to the Kingdom and the gates of hell cannot prevail against them and those we save by this gospel are saved and those who ignore it, cover it up, reject it, do not trust it, cannot see it will be lost forever. The gateway to heaven and eternal life and salvation is on this side of the grave. Those that enter the grave prior to this experience are by definition lost.

Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;   (KJV)

And you know not what this means either. The washing of regeneration is not the mere experience of the Holy Ghost or Spirit. The regeneration is when you are regenerated by the death resurrection and ascension of Christ. Otherwise you are unregenerated and in the old body with the unforgiven sins which only the cross removes. It is a washing in the blood of Christ and its effect is a renewing of the Holy Ghost which we sense on both sides of the cross. This Holy Ghost leads us to the Cross and takes us through the door of Christ to the eternal life in the Kingdom and renews our body to contain the new life we receive and the Holy Ghost is renewed in the process and is continually renewed afterward. This doctrine has nothing to do with what you claim.
 
Mike

 

I say once again Mike, my friend, give these vain doctrines up for they do nothing for you or for anyone else. They do not lead to salvation but are a detour and an excuse to avoid what Christ has for you in him. Don't miss the big issue by striving so hard to perfect false doctrines. I pray that the Holy Ghost will lead you to the experience of eternal life and salvation and your entry into the Kingdom of Heaven upon Earth and throughout the galaxies via the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ Jesus prior to the grave.

 

Addition:

Finally, I would like to say that all this slaughter of the word is just another form of dispensationalism which attempts to give the Jew a brake and another way out or the same way out at another time. That is not possible for if the Jews are saved when Christ returns they are not saved by faith but by direct intervention which is not scriptural for Jew or Gentile. All kinds of perverted government grows from this distortion of the word including the destruction of real Christianity and its true doctrine by those who hate Christ and what he has done to the cosmos. Our present day foreign policy in the West rests firmly on this false doctrine and it is time that it be dismissed as the heresy that it is.

End of Addition.

No one can slaughter the scriptures as you, Mike, and your cohorts have obviously done in the light for all to see unless you be blind yourself to what you are doing and why. I pray that you leave these false doctrines and seek regeneration now before it is too late.

Sincerely,

 

Ronald F. Avery

www.AlienPhysics.com