----- Original Message -----
From: taphouse@sbcglobal.net
To: Mike Schroeder
Cc: taphouse@sbcglobal.net ; Alan Couchman ; Arthur Clarke ; Chris Stevens ; David Lewis ; David Martinez ; Jeremiah Patoka ; John Bryant ; John Otis ; Mitch Friedman ; Nathan Shaver ; Pat Hastings ; Rick Mata ; Steve Phillips ; Terry Burnett ; JimBob Howard ; Dakota Tremayne
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: On Miles Coverdale and rightly dividing

Dear Mike,
My reply is in red below:
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Schroeder
To: taphouse@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 5:45 AM
Subject: RE: On Miles Coverdale and rightly dividing

 
 
Ron,
 
You wrote:
I wrote the following or something like the following to Robert. As a "rightly divider" make sure you understand and quote others along with who it is written to as that will change the entire meaning of what was said. Just kidding! Do you believe the following changed because I said it to Robert and not you?

I appreciate your candid reply. Let us pretend for just a moment what would happen if everyone on earth was born again into the kingdom of Heaven on Earth by their death, resurrection and ascension with Christ to sit down with him in Heaven (Eph. 2:6). What would we then have? Would we all still be trying to study the word and tell our neighbors what we learned from the word today so we could rightly divide the word? I think not. I believe that the first and primary reason for "rightly dividing the word" is so that we enter the Kingdom of God and secondly it is to get others into the Kingdom of God. I do not believe there is any other reason. I do not believe there is a scholastic reason to find any other kind of information or any other kind of purpose such as gaining wealth, finding true happiness or wisdom for those things come with entry into the Kingdom of God or Heaven by the operation of Christ's death resurrection and ascension.
 
If we were presently in the kingdom of heaven on earth your assertion would be true. No one--those "born of God" (1 John 3:9; 4:7; 5:18)--would need to study Scripture, because what they would need to know would be supernaturally written on their hearts and in their minds. (Jer. 31;33; Heb. 8:8:10; 10:16). There will be no need for teaching in the K of H (1 John 2:20,27).  
 
It's not "if we were presently in the Kingdom of Heaven on earth" it is that I am in the Kingdom of Heaven by my testimony and you are not in the Kingdom of God by your own admission. Therefore by definition you are not "rightly dividing the word" properly. If you were "rightly dividing the word" you too would be in the Kingdom of Heaven right now. If you were "born again" you would see and be in the Kingdom of God or Heaven on Earth and you would be sitting in the Heavenly Places in Christ Jesus. But you are not by your own admission. Therefore, again you have been deceived and the Kingdom of Heaven has been closed to you by your own theology. At this point you will have to remain un born or change your theology. It appears that you had rather remain un regenerated. The future consequences are not very good.
 
The problem with this proposition is we aren't in the Kingdom of Heaven, Ron, we're in the dispensation of the grace of God (Eph. 3:2), which was given to Paul, exclusively, to give to us ("you Gentiles") "for the obedience of faith" (Romans 16:26).  When Paul commands Timothy (and us) to "rightly divide the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15) he, first, means to distinguish between doctrine for the New Testament (the K of H) and the D of G, which means, in no uncertain terms, DON'T MIX THEM!  
 
Really, Mike, come on! Please! You have said nothing in that paragraph about anything other than your denial that you think I live in the Kingdom of Heaven. You can't know that I'm not living in the Kingdom of Heaven and you can't prove me wrong with any scripture. But I can prove I do live in the Kingdom of Heaven by scripture. But you want me to lie about my state of being and adopt a lesser doctrine and use words that appear to have no meaning at all to you. You use great passages but don't know what they mean!
I know I live in the "dispensation of the grace of God" which is the Kingdom of Heaven which was established by the death resurrection and ascension of Christ of which I have benefited from in that I was with him in those acts as all other things in space and time. I have appropriated it for my benefit and you have not by admission. I could not have participated in those events without "the obedience of faith." Faith led me to trust in Christ. And after years of trust and seeking and knocking and asking, one day it was opened and I went in. One cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless one "rightly divides the word" of God. One cannot enter the Kingdom of God or Heaven by perverting the scriptures. The point of perversion is to make an excuse for not being born again or diminishing the need or claiming it belongs to someone else. The purpose of "rightly dividing the word" is so that all mankind is saved by the operation of God in Christ. You can not point to scripture that defines "rightly dividing the word of truth" as distinguishing between a New Testament doctrine of the "Kingdom of Heaven" for Jews versus a New Testament doctrine of "Dispensation of God" for Gentiles. The "Kingdom of Heaven" is a place (everywhere) and the "Dispensation of Grace" is how you get there. It is obvious why this dichotomy has been contrived by the deceivers. Those who have been studying the New Testament but have not been "born again" as required to see the Kingdom of God, have excused themselves by claiming it is only meant for Jews. You have said in earlier emails that you have been relieved by your new doctrine. I believe that relief you feel is because you once sought after being "born again" but could not get that experience so in your frustration you joined this cult of other "Christians" that deny the need for that experience and claim that experience is for Jews only. That is heresy and I am proof of it as I was born again and I am in the Kingdom of God and Heaven and I am not a Jew by blood but by circumcision of the Heart or the death resurrection and ascension of Christ. And what has happened to me has happened to the whole cosmos. But you don't perceive that, revealing to me that you are in denial of the power of Christ to save anyone by his death resurrection and ascension. For no man is saved short of the experience of that act. For there is simply no need for the death resurrection and ascension of Christ if men are saved by merely believing on him or his name or that he did those things. One must place themselves where Christ went and where he is now.
 
Now the "Dispensation of God" is no other thing then the power of God in Christ to save men by his death resurrection and ascension. And this dispensation is the open door of the death resurrection and ascension of Christ which no man can close (which you are trying to do the very best you can by perverting the scriptures) and this door or dispensation of God will remain open until Christ returns to close it at judgment at which time no man will open.
 
I was never as confident as you before I was born again and I recommend that you return to your asking and seeking and knocking until the door is opened to you and I recommend that you go through the door and sit down in Heaven with Christ and leave all this outcome based slaughter of the word passed off as "rightly dividing." What would you have done if the author had said "rightly deduct or deduce the word of God." I guess you would be taking things out of the word. But "rightly divide" in this context means "rightly discern." So rather than divide the word up into arbitrary blocks to achieve excuses for failure why not discern the meaning and purpose of all scripture is to save you and your friends. For you will not be saved by your theology. I am saved by my theology. So if you ask me which theology I prefer and which I will profess and recommend to others, it will be my theology.
 
When you can come on this forum and state honestly that you have been born again into the Kingdom of Heaven and God to sit down in the Heavenly places with Christ Jesus, I will listen to what you have to say about any other doctrine in the Bible. But until then you are a novice for these issues are basic not advanced. And what I say here for you I say here for all those on this forum and for all Jews and for everyone else in space and time.
 
But unfortunately, I believe that your theology is a defensive mechanism rather than a delivery mechanism and that you are so encrusted with this theology and so used to throwing it around you rather than seeking all that God has for you that you will continue in your error. It  must scare you to leave your turtle shell theology and once again seek the Kingdom God in fear that you will not find it on your next journey out.

Mike
 
I really do now pray for you Mike, for I also know you and I know Phil and Dave and a few others in your theology and none of these men have ever confessed to me of a "born again" experience and this is simply not a good thing. I don't want to hurt with the word or in any other way. But I had rather hurt you than lose you. I too want all men saved and I reject doctrines that do not lead to regeneration in Christ into the Kingdom of Heaven where I am now. I want you to join me there and all others that they might know the height, depth, and breadth of the Love of God in Christ.
 
Why don't we all pray right now: Jesus Christ in Heaven, if Ron is really right and not deceiving us, please show me how he can say such things. I want to be in the Kingdom of God with you right now. I am tired of theology and much thinking and much learning. I want to know something more than I know my own name. I want to be weightless. I want to fill the cosmos. I want the cosmos to be in me. I want to be in you as you said I was. I want you to be in me as you said you were. I want to be with you while walking on the water. I want to be with you in your crucifixion. I want to die with you on the cross. I want to be buried with you in the tomb. I want to come out of the tomb with you and be with you for 40 days visiting your friends and disciples. I want to ascend with you into heaven in front of 500 witnesses. I know that for me to be with you, as you said, I must be with you everywhere you were and are now. Jesus, I believe you are in Heaven right now and I believe what you said when you prayed to your Father in Heaven for me to be with you where you are that I may behold your glory. I want what Ron says he has even if he doesn't have it himself. Ron is no better than I am and if he could obtain it now, I want it too! I believe you and I confess that I believe that I am in you in all that you ever did or ever will do including sitting down in the Kingdom of Heaven and coming again in judgment. I do not want to be found outside you upon your return. I don't want to be in the church but not in your body which hung on the cross. I do not want to spend another hour trudging through theology and spend days and months and years using arguments in defense of where I am if I am not with you in the Kingdom of Heaven right now. I believe that you have saved every human being by your death resurrection and ascension and I pray that I am able to perceive of why that is so and that I may be found in you upon your return, for I do not want to be destroyed by the brightness of your coming. And Jesus I don't want a lesser theology that leaves me out of something or some blessing. I want all you have for me. I want to be where you are right now in the Kingdom of Heaven. Please let me be everywhere you have been and everywhere you are and everywhere you are going. Amen

Sincerely,
Ron Avery


 

From: taphouse@sbcglobal.net
To: taphouse@sbcglobal.net
CC: ronpaul-1529@meetup.com
Subject: Resend email to Ron Avery
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 17:25:44 -0500

Friends,
If you have sent me email in the last two days please send it to me again as I went to my yahoo mail on another computer and I messed up and deleted my email where I could not download it. If you send it again I will get it as I am back on my old computer.
Sincerely,
Ron


Your PC, mobile phone, and online services work together like never before. See how Windows® fits your life